Being a "Car-Person" is a paradox

"Bryan doesn't drive a 1M" (bryantakespictures)
11/02/2020 at 12:59 • Filed to: None

As a father of 2 children under 4 years old, I spend roughly 87% of my day buckling and unbuckling car seats. I’ve only ever owned sedans or coupes, but I’ve been eyeballing minivans or SUV’s (or wagons, obviously) for child-shuffling duty until the kids grow out of their car seats and into boosters.

Some (1st world) problems I’ve run into:

When shopping for SUV’s, I end up looking for things like locking diffs and approach angles when all I really need is some extra space. ...and a V8, right?

When I bring up minivans with people they look at me like I’m crazy. “Aren’t you a car-guy? I can’ see you with a minivan. etc.” What people don’t understand, at least about this “car-guy” is that I like cars that are fit for purpose. A minivan is the best at what it does, by a wider margin than 1-2 seconds of o-60 time between different sports cars. Compare loading kids into the back of a Mustang vs an Odyssey!

Here’s the paradox, though: I also love cars that can do it all. My STI, a Golf R, a V70R, even a Subaru Outback sometimes does it for me. I think fast minivans, SUV’s and trucks are cool. Econo-boxes that are modded to be track toys will always get some love from me.

I guess what I’m saying is: Oppo, you’re the only ones who would understand why I have tabs open for minivans and trucks and Miatas and Mustangs and... you get the idea. Another thing Oppo will understand is researching these cars for years and never buying any of them.

DISCUSSION (54)

Nibby > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
11/02/2020 at 13:33

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
11/02/2020 at 13:33

They say the two most important days of your life are the day you are born and the day you realize you can own more than one car at a time.

phenotyp > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
11/02/2020 at 13:37

Totally get it. That’s a big part of why I went from two badass E60s to an i3. Not having B pillars blocking the kiddo’s car seat made an enormous day-to-day improvement.

flatisflat > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
11/02/2020 at 13:39

I used to own one of these:

Kinja'd!!!

And have recently been researching these :

Kinja'd!!!

Oppo understands you. :)

Jb boin > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
11/02/2020 at 13:39

WAGON !

3point8isgreat > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
11/02/2020 at 13:41

“ Another thing Oppo will understand is researching these cars for years and never buying any of them.”

I feel so seen. Pretty sure I drove my wife crazy with that in the years we were together before I finally bought a car.

ClassicDatsunDebate > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
11/02/2020 at 13:41

I hear ya man.

Milky > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
11/02/2020 at 13:43

Shout out to Volvos V70r with booster seats.

Kinja'd!!!

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
11/02/2020 at 13:46

“ Another thing Oppo will understand is researching these cars for years and never buying any of them”

That's me!

wafflesnfalafel > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
11/02/2020 at 13:49

G et a nice Honda Odyssey LX and put a big wing on the back and some pusher bars up front, (only partially joking.)

Textured Soy Protein > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
11/02/2020 at 13:59

Minivans are good.

My bird IS the word > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
11/02/2020 at 14:05

Look into a full size conversion van? Can now get an awd ford transit that can tow 600 pounds and has their "ecoboost" (ahem) v6. Expensive, but very practical.

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
11/02/2020 at 14:06

A minivan is purposeful in the same way a Cayman is purposeful. It just so happens that one of them is built to make your daily life more practical and the other will tear up that backroad to soccer practice with the kid and 3 of their friends in the back.

Tripper > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
11/02/2020 at 14:06

“ tabs open for minivans and trucks and Miatas and Mustangs and... you get the idea. Another thing is researching these cars for years and never buying any of them.”

If these are your symptoms Oppo is the cure place where you will find similar nut jobs to further justify your own musings.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
11/02/2020 at 14:06

Jag XF Sport back (wagon)? It even has the glorious V6.

https://www.jaguardayton.com/used/Jaguar/2018-Jaguar-XF-f893be5c0a0e0ae7430c93ed08796fa5.htm

adamftw > 3point8isgreat
11/02/2020 at 14:09

My wife is pretty much ready to murder me because of this

Tripper > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
11/02/2020 at 14:09

It is a pivotal day.

CobraJoe > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
11/02/2020 at 14:09

I’ve been there, but we’ve stopped at 2 kids and the oldest is 8 now.

Overall I’ve learned that it’s easier to live with a “boring” car that does everything you need than to try and make a “fun” car that can sort of work. But, I’ve also found that driving the “more practical than fun” family car every day to work is soul crushing.

My advice:

If it works for your situation, g et one car that is dedicated to family duty, and one car that is more fun but can still fit the family. (I have a couple extra vehicles on top of that, but I pushed hard for a 3 car garage.)

Make sure your significant other is happy with the car being picked. (Going underwater on a trade is really expensive.)

Pick some interesting cars that fit your wants and needs, and then test drive them all! Then take suggestions from the salesmen and test drive those too! You might be surprised at what can be fun to drive. (The latest generation of the CX9 is shockingly good.)

Oh, and bring at least one car seat along when car shopping . It’s the best way to know how much room there actually is.

Be honest about what you really need and what you really want in a family hauler. Lying to yourself about what you can really “live with” is a great way to sell a car sooner than originally planned.

Some examples of wants vs needs :

A minivan isn’t necessary for 2 kids, but there is no better option if you’re planning on having more.

3rd row Crossovers and SUVs are horrible if you require 6+ seats, but amazing if you ever want to carry a couple people on occasion. However, they’re also bigger, heavier, and worse on gas than a midsized 2 row CUV .

Offroad capability can be very helpful on occasion, but are you really going off road that often? Modern AWD systems are still very capable, and are usually installed in more comfortable (and more affordable) vehicles .

Crew cab trucks work great for hauling stuff and people (3 car seats easily fit acros s the rear bench!), but they’re also expensive, big, thirsty, and might require bigger tools for repairs.

When I bring up minivans with people they look at me like I’m crazy. “Aren’t you a car-guy? I can’ see you wit h a minivan. et c.”

Yeah, I’ve heard that once or twice. But, they usually shut up when they ride with me. Also, did you know that the Outback is amazing on twisty mountain roads?

MUSASHI66 > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
11/02/2020 at 14:11

No kids, but three dogs and one is very old - I have to lift him into the pickup.

Every time I see a Sienna SE with those altezza stoplights and big gray wheels, I always imagine a nice tint, good stereo, wife and my dogs with me, cruising in comfort wherever we want. Cruising in a 20 year old Tundra with a topper and KO2’s is “cooler”, especially as I can have two cars and my Abarth is so much fun, but ain’t nothin wrong with a purpose built vehicle if you have the need.

Besides, have you seen how fast those minivans can scoot with 3.5l V6 engines??

Tripper > My bird IS the word
11/02/2020 at 14:12

Another staple Oppositehood. If you haven’t dreamed out your van life at least 6 different ways, I don’t know what you’re doing here.

Bryan doesn't drive a 1M > CobraJoe
11/02/2020 at 14:23

All great advice. I seem to have made it my life’s goal to use the most incorrect car in all situations. Why stop now?

Yes, I’ve driven the previous gen Outback on The Grand Circle and it was so much better than I expected.

and 100 more > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
11/02/2020 at 14:26

... and the day you realize you can can afford to own more than one car at a time.

CobraJoe > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
11/02/2020 at 14:27

All great advice. I seem to have made it my life’s goal to use the most incorrect car in all situations. Why stop now?

Because kids can increase that stress exponentially? (Or is that just my experience?)

Anyways, I’ve learned that I can be flexible on vehicle shape and seating and still get a fun car.... though my wife usually opts for something less fun. (But also why I pick my own vehicle for my commute.)

Bryan doesn't drive a 1M > Jb boin
11/02/2020 at 14:27

What I really want is a wagon with suicide rear doors and rear-facing 3rd row in the back. Is that so much to ask? I’d even accept FWD for something like that.

Bryan doesn't drive a 1M > Textured Soy Protein
11/02/2020 at 14:28

Honda Odyssey from around 2010 looks to be a nearly perfect vehicle, from what I can tell.

RallyWrench > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
11/02/2020 at 15:19

Seconded, I love our Sienna. If it ever dies I’ll replace it with another one.

Signed, car guy with family.

PartyPooper2012 > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
11/02/2020 at 15:27

good minivans are good.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
11/02/2020 at 15:42

V70R - turbo, AWD, rear facing seats. You’re welcome.

DasWauto > Tripper
11/02/2020 at 15:44

Can confirm. My current car search has only one common thread - 4 driven wheels. Full-size and midsize trucks, 4Runner, Grand Cherokee, Wrangler, STI, Outback, Golf Alltrack/R, are or have all been considerations, having been on/off semi-seriously looking to replace the WRX for a year+. This indecision is starting to wear on me.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
11/02/2020 at 15:54

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/soccer-moms-revenge/

I’mma just leave this here for your reading pleasure.

Also, as someone who owned a 1999 GMC Safari AWD van when he was 22 and single... get the the minivan! It was low key one of the best vehicles I’ve ever owned - it was shockingly fun (pack all the friends in for trips), very utilitarian, and supremely comfy, and the AWD was quite capable.

Chariotoflove > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
11/02/2020 at 16:01

And also how we can like big V8 performance cars and electric commuters at the same time.

JeffCronin > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
11/02/2020 at 16:11

Porsche makes booster seats for the 911 (996). I made it until the oldest was 14 with that, a Ford Edge (now with the oldest at 17) and an XF for the fleet. Traded the XF for a Q7 four years ago as the family cruiser/sports equipment hauler.

Though about minivans but could not go there, but more power to you on that front if it works.

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
11/02/2020 at 16:22

I’ll always argue t here’s a strong enthusiast angle to the perfect family car. Not sure what your budget is but you can’t go wrong with the current lineup of Toyota hybrids. The better and more utilitarian your non-enthusiast car is, the more time, energy and money you’ll have for an enthusiast car.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
11/02/2020 at 17:15

I hear you.

I have a little confession to make as well. As a “car guy”, I’ve only ever owned one car. It’s still my first car. I’ve owned it for... 13 years now? It’s an automatic, it’s not fast, and it’s not fancy. But it does what I need it to do.

Our minivan is the most spacious, powerful vehicle that either my wife or I have owned. It’s got enough space in it that I can easily hop up, sit on one of the folded-down seats, and use it as a chair while I buckle our two oldest in. It’s got plenty of space in the back.

There’s something to be said about a vehicle that is built with a specific purpose, and having it do that purpose well.

That being said, I hate our Sienna with a passion, as it’s been the most expensive to fix and least reliable vehicle that either my wife or I have owned. I long for the day that I can replace it with some sort of EV family hauler.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > Milky
11/02/2020 at 17:22

That would blow my nearly-six-year-old daughter’s mind!

BaconSandwich is tasty. > RallyWrench
11/02/2020 at 17:23

What year is your Sienna?

Ours is a 2008. Maybe we just got a dud?

BaconSandwich is tasty. > phenotyp
11/02/2020 at 17:25

I wish they made an i3 with a third seat in the back. :(

Milky > BaconSandwich is tasty.
11/02/2020 at 17:36

I blew my mind as an adult. You better believe I rode around with the seat up like that.

RallyWrench > BaconSandwich is tasty.
11/02/2020 at 17:40

It’s an ‘05 XLE. It is coming apart a bit at 180k miles , but has served well . The automatic sliders recently stopped working, and I need to replace the steering rack and reseal the valve covers due to leaks . It’ll also be due for the second timing belt and a trans service shortly. Runs like a train though, and my wife and kids are hard on it.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > RallyWrench
11/02/2020 at 18:33

In our 2-3 years of ownership we’ve had to do the rear main seal, power steering pump and power steering rack. Also a few other odds and ends: wiper nozzles, license plate light, a few other bulbs, and probably some other small stuff I’m forgetting. Thankfully we’ve got the base model, so no power doors to break .

TheRealBicycleBuck > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
11/02/2020 at 18:47

We went from a coupe to a sedan a few months after my daughter was born, for the very reasons you mentioned. We went from a sedan to an SUV for the very reasons you mentioned. (We should’ve bought a van, but my wife wouldn’t have it.)

When my truck finally died, I started looking for something sporty that could still be used to haul around the kids. I took the kids with me on test drives to make sure they were comfortable in the back. I ended up with a WRX. It’s stupid fun and still pretty functional.

phenotyp > BaconSandwich is tasty.
11/02/2020 at 18:48

Word. It’s just a biiiiiit too narrow.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > phenotyp
11/02/2020 at 19:07

Yeah. With three kids, my wife has vetoed anything with less than 5 seats.

RallyWrench > BaconSandwich is tasty.
11/02/2020 at 20:08

Oof, sorry about the rear main and rack! I more or less expect every 90's-00's Toyota V6 to need a power steering pump at some point, every single one of them leaks, but the rack was a lame surprise. I hate the stupid power doors, I honestly don’t miss them and they move easily enough. We’d have been perfectly happy with a base model, but shopping used this was the best-kept one we could find for the budget 5 years ago, it had a stack of maintenance records and was in great shape with around 100k miles at the time. I had to do washer nozzles and more than a few bulbs too, but in my world that kind of stuff is normal.

I’ve come to realize that all minivans are built hastily, to a price, because they sell as many as can be built . So of the available options, I think the Sienna may age the best. If we had an Odyssey we would have needed a transmission by now at least, maybe worse given the issues with the V6 + cylinder deactivation in the late 2000s, and Caravans are just... no. Come time to replace ours (sometime around 200k in my mind ), the newer 3.5L Siennas seem to be aging pretty well.

Bryan doesn't drive a 1M > TheRealBicycleBuck
11/02/2020 at 20:22

Yep, and unlike my STI the WRX gets decent MPGs. It’s a size up from the hot-hatches that it usually gets compared with. Car journalists tend to downplay that difference and focus on lap times or interior materials, but it’s significant.

Bryan doesn't drive a 1M > BaconSandwich is tasty.
11/02/2020 at 20:28

Car guys don’t have to own lots of cars, they just have to care about cars. My friend is not really a car guy, but the one thing he knows is the horsepower rating of his mini van and he quotes it all the time. The funniest thing was when I met his wife, she mentioned the exact same horsepower figure in casual conversation, too! They’re just teetering on the edge of becoming “car people.”

It has nowhere near the space of a minivan, but our Kia Niro EV is a nearly perfect family car. I’d love to see something like a Mazda5 with the sliding doors and an EV drivetrain with 200+ miles of range.

VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
11/02/2020 at 21:33

I think this is an important point - the important part is the passion for vehicles. It doesn’t matter what vehicle it is, as long as you care and want to own and operate these things with meaning.

I mean, I struggle with some of the overcamber people but it’s the passion and enthusiasm for what a car is and does that really resonates with me.

Also minivans are legit.

Jim Spanfeller > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
11/03/2020 at 01:26

Minivans rock. They may not have the “cool” image, but darn if they ain’t the greatest family cars in the world. The Honda Odyssey I grew up riding around in has done everything we could ever ask it to do and more. It’s just so extremely practical and easy to use, it has earned my respect. It’s got over 200k miles on it, and I imagine it could totally go 200k more. It’s just an extremely well-designed thing in general. I imagine someday when I have kids, I’ll probably buy some station wagon because I can’t resist, and then break down after a few years/months and buy an Odyssey.

I do wish, though, that some company would offer a hot hatch-ified minivan from the factory. The drivetrains can’t be that different, can they? A minivan is basically just a taller hatchback with sliding doors, right, so why not? A Honda Odyssey Type R would be just about perfect... I’ll take mine in Aegean Blue, please!

Jim Spanfeller > BaconSandwich is tasty.
11/03/2020 at 01:29

Wait... how come nobody’s developing an EV minivan yet? I mean besides that Canoo thing, which doesn’t count because you can’t actually own it.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
11/03/2020 at 07:51

I did manage to get 25 mpg out of my WRX. Once. It was on a camping trip. I was fully loaded with three passengers and the giant roof box on top. I didn’t expect to get such good mileage, so it was quite a surprise. It was a Boy Scout camping trip, so we were limited to the speed of the truck pulling the troop camp trailer. He kept it to the speed limit or under for the entire 8 + hour drive.

It really highlighted how much of my driving is with my foot too deep into the accelerator.

In general, I get 18-20 mpg.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > Jim Spanfeller
11/03/2020 at 08:39

Mercedes Benz has a full sized EV van. I don’t think they sell it in North America, and it’s pretty pricey.

But yeah, I don't get it either.

Bryan doesn't drive a 1M > TheRealBicycleBuck
11/03/2020 at 11:11

Wow, not as big a difference as I thought. My lifetime avg is 19.2 for my STI.

Bryan doesn't drive a 1M > Jim Spanfeller
11/03/2020 at 11:15

Agreed on the hot-hatch treatment. At least they tend to come with almost 300 hp compared to the slow CUVs people cross shop against minivans for some reason. Adding AWD with some electric motors in the back (like the RDX... I think?) seems ideal for some pretty serious performance.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M
11/03/2020 at 11:26

Huh. Look at that. I stopped tracking a couple of years ago, but I just looked it up on the tracker I was using and the average for my WRX was 19.2 too. That’s for the first 45,000 miles.